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Crucial Conversations
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Crucial Conversations
The Lasting Legacy of Terry Fox's Marathon of Hope
What makes an ordinary man extraordinary? How does an athlete with unyielding tenacity turn an unthinkable diagnosis into a beacon of hope? Join us on this inspiring journey through the life and legacy of Terry Fox, a man whose spirit continues to impact the world. Listen to intimate family stories shared by Terry's brother, Darrell Fox, and learn about Terry's determination that resonates with millions even today.
From being a regular student and athlete to becoming an emblem of hope, Terry’s journey is nothing short of inspiring. Dive into Terry's monumental cross-Canada marathon - a testament to his willpower, which saw him run a marathon every day for 143 days straight, despite losing his leg to cancer. Darrell shares insights into the family's reaction to Terry's audacious plan and how they stood by him through thick and thin.
As we conclude this journey, we reflect on Terry Fox's legacy and the ongoing fight against cancer. From the establishment of the Terry Fox Foundation, the Terry Fox Research Institute to the creation of the Terry Fox Center, Darrell enlightens us about the invaluable contributions these organizations have made in the realm of cancer research. Emphasizing the importance of involving the younger generation and the potential of emerging technologies, this episode serves as a compelling reminder of the power of determination and the lasting impact one individual can have on the world. Tune in and draw inspiration from a tale of unyielding resilience and relentless hope.
Visit the below website to see the legacy and work the Terry Fox Research Institute is doing.
https://www.tfri.ca/
Well, I just want to start off by saying thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to come and share the story and spend time with me today.
Speaker 1:As I mentioned, when we first sat down, I was genuinely surprised that this was the first time that I've heard of this story and of your brother and the amazing work that your foundation does, and I think cancer is such a sensitive and pervasive topic that impacts almost every family in today's society, and I'm really hoping today that we can unpack and get into the story, because I think it's a beautiful, a beautiful Genesis story for this foundation that you now run and inspirational. When I was doing my research, I was just dumbfounded and often when I come across these types of stories, I always take a look at myself and think you can do a little bit more. You could really push harder. And, yeah, just thank you again for being here and maybe, as a base lining for the audience that's going to be listening, if you could just introduce yourself and the foundation and your role within the foundation, and then I'll start probing some questions to take us back and go back to those beautiful memories that you started mentioning at the beginning of this discussion.
Speaker 2:Great yeah. So my name is Daryl Fox and I am Terry Fox's not so young younger brother. I was gifted with the opportunity of being Terry Fox's brother all my life and was able to witness his story and his efforts to make a difference. And now, 43 years removed, I continue to do that. Every morning I wake up, I pinch myself that I've been given this gift. I really don't deserve this honor, but as fate has it, I was able to witness a miracle in 1980. And here I am talking about Terry, and people are listening still to the story.
Speaker 2:I am my day job is senior advisor at the Terry Fox Research Institute. We have three identities that bear the Terry Fox name the Terry Fox Foundation is the long-term organization that has been existed since 1988 and it is responsible for raising money for cancer research. And Terry's name, the research institute the family created in 2007 and it is responsible for spending the money that the Terry Fox Foundation raises. And more recently, in 2012, we created the Terry Fox Center, along with the thousands of cards and letters that were forwarded to Terry in 1980. We have a collection that needs to be protected and preserved, and that's the mission of the Terry Fox Center is to protect the collection but also use it to share a story or two about Terry's legacy, because we all have date stamps.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to be around forever, so how do we communicate, how do we share that story going forward? And we believe, or I believe very strongly, that the Terry Fox Center and the artifacts will help to share that story and also share the story of cancer research, and I'm sure we'll get into that a little bit as well in terms of the progress that has been made over the last 43 years. Part of this job, it's both a blessing and a curse. I have the opportunity to talk about Terry, but it also hurts because he's not here. He passed away in 1981 and that's still real. It never goes away. So that's the difficult part. But I know through research we are making a difference and that's what Terry wanted us to do in 1980 and that's what we can continue to do 43 years later. Wow.
Speaker 1:You know it's my lifetime, right, I'm born in 1982. This occurred just before I arrived on this blue rock of chaos and I'd like to go back, if it's okay with you, and maybe you can just paint a picture. I've got four siblings. So I've got four sisters and it's always interesting the dynamic and relationships and I think, if I try and go back to the childhood relationships I had with my siblings, it's always a blend of different emotions and experiences and you fortunately enough to be part of this legacy that your brother has created. But I want to go back before. Terry Fox was a name and he was just your brother and maybe you can paint a scenario of where did this start. So your brother was diagnosed with cancer, pre-him being diagnosed with cancer. Tell us about your brother and your relationship with your brother and what was the age gap between the two of you and just paint a picture there of that. Laugh back then.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So when we talk about Terry, I think we have to put him back on the ground, because he's always elevated and put on a pedestal and what we say first is he wasn't. He was pretty average. He was an average student, he was an average athlete. What he had and he had an abundance, and maybe at some point be able to talk about mom and dad who obviously I mean it is genetic he was very determined, very driven. Nothing was ever given to us as children of Betty and Roly Fox. We had to work for everything. So Are we in?
Speaker 1:Canada at this stage?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, when was I, were we in?
Speaker 1:Canada, or are we now in this timeline?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we were in Canada. We're Canadians, we also have a First Nations background I could talk about that a little bit as well. But the family was born, we were born, the kids were born, in Winnipeg, manitoba, very bloody cold, really cold, but we escaped. Dad worked on CN, on a railway, and didn't like the cold winter. So we were the first family of the Fox family to move west to Vancouver. I am four years younger than Terry. I'm number three in terms of the children. The relationship. What we all had in common as Fox family members is we were all keen on sports. My mom actually played hockey, ice hockey. You made ends in your ass hockey. She was a goalie. So dad wasn't much the athlete, but mom certainly was. So that's something we all had in common. We played sports, mostly team sports, basketball, football and Canada soccer, rugby. Terry played rugby, so sports was something that we all had in common. He was a rugby player as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, rugby player as well, big rugby fan over here, as you know. South Africa? Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:So sports was really big and I think that's what really kept us together, even though the age difference is pretty significant, being four years younger than Terry. But it did allow us to play sports together because when we weren't in school, we were in the backyard or out on outside in front of the house playing road hockey or basketball in the backyard, where dad had a hoop and Terry was an extreme competitor. He despised losing. We all despised losing. It doesn't matter what it was, whether it was board games or he had to win, we all had to win.
Speaker 2:So Was he the oldest of the siblings? No, fred is the oldest. Fred is one year older than Terry. Terry would be 65 if he were alive today. So I guess that was our upbringing was work hard. Nothing was ever given to us. If we wanted something, we had to make money, we had to do housework around the house, we picked berries growing, we delivered newspapers. Nothing was ever given to a member of the Fox family, and I think working hard was something that Terry probably had a monopoly over. We all Fred, my older brother, fred, judy we were all bait, similar in that nature, but Terry certainly had something unique in terms of his ability to work hard.
Speaker 1:And that showed itself through early on.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, we always talk about Terry's when he, you know, he tried out for the grade eight basketball team and coach McGill came up to Terry and said Terry, give it up. You know basketball is not your sport. I suggest you try wrestling. I think that's a sport that's more geared to your natural ability, of which I don't think you have any. But I think you should try wrestling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Pretty blunt he was very. He actually was, and coach McGill was my coach for through grade eight and grade 10 and he is, and he actually. Coach McGill went on to give Terry's eulogy at his funeral. So it shows the special relationship coach McGill had with Terry. But coach McGill knew a little bit about Terry and his personality and he knew, you know, that Terry would respond to a challenge and that's exactly what Terry did. You know he took that challenge and that he couldn't play basketball. And what did Terry do the next morning? He got up an hour early for school. He went to the gym. He practiced basketball. As soon as the school day ended, he was in the gym. He practiced basketball. He'd rush home. He'd eat dinner as quickly as he could. He played basketball out in the backyard. He practiced and he practiced and he practiced made the team.
Speaker 1:So you ended up making the team he made the team.
Speaker 2:He made it in a minute and in a preseason game or a regular season game that first year, coach McGill only played the best players and Terry wasn't that, but he rode the bench and he learned a valuable lesson. Terry learned that you know, do not believe what people think or say about you. Believe in yourself and anything is possible. So by grade 10, terry was a starting guard on his basketball team and in his last year of high school he was named co-athlete of the year along with his good friend Doug Alward, who drove the van during the marathon of Hope. So you know that all started, I think, from coach McGill and that challenge that he set for Terry in grade eight.
Speaker 1:You make me think of something that lives rent free in my head at the moment, and it's a Michael Jordan speech when he got inducted into the Hall of Fame. Have you seen it? No, I have not, no. But so he goes up to give a speech and obviously it's quite an emotional experience. And he gets up there and he's like you know, I wasn't going to really do a labored speech, but I'd like to just thank all those people that put wood on my fire and what he starts doing is systematically, all the way from high school, naming each and every single person that told him that he couldn't, that rejected him from the team you know, and naming them one by one, all throughout his whole career. Thank you for putting wood on my fire, and Terry sounds like he's got that same kind of mental spurt and tenacity to rise to the challenge, so that's quite powerful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he did yeah.
Speaker 1:How many siblings were there? Four, four, so oldest Fred, and then Terry me Judy. Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:How was it? It's a big family. It is a big family now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't see families of four as much anymore. So it was big back then, poor Judy, because mom tended to favor the boys, so the boys always seen and she had her, mom had her favorites, mom was sure. They will say that they don't. No no mom was, didn't hide it oh really. She never. No, terry was number one, I was two, Fred three, judy, a distant fourth, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, at least Judy had three powerhouse older brothers to protect.
Speaker 2:That was that, yeah, what was that Okay?
Speaker 1:So there was this spirit within Terry that was noticeable from a young age and he rose to the occasion. So he finishes high school, and then what?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he wanted to increase his education and he attended Simon Fraser University. His grades were good because not because he again he was a gifted student, but just that he worked hard. He studied hard, along with the sport piece as well. He attended SFU and then he tried out for the Simon Fraser University basketball team. Was there a scholarship for Terry Fox? Nope, no, he was coathlete of the year. No scholarship for him to attend SFU. Was he extended an invite to try out for the team? No, no, he was what they called a walk on.
Speaker 2:So he was one of a number of players that year who showed up uninvited to try out for the team. And you know coach Devlin, his coach at the time, and I've had numerous conversations with him over the years. He's always said you know, terry was by far the least talented player that tried out for the team that year. But after that first practice, because of the grit and determination that he displayed, I knew he was going to make my team. And that's what happened. Terry made the basketball team first. He graduated from pork equivalent senior secondary and he was the first athlete to play sports up at SFU.
Speaker 2:So it was quite an achievement and it was actually during that first year of studying kinesiology and playing basketball that he discovered a pain in his right leg. Well, we've talked about how determined Terry was. He was also extremely stubborn and he decided you know, I'm not going to see a doctor right away. You know, I think it's a basketball injury. I'm going to it's going to go away. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to out, persist the pain and again. And his goal was finishing that first year of basketball before having the inconvenience of having to go see a doctor. Well, that day never came. He wasn't able to finish the season because the pain got so bad that one morning, when he tried to get out of bed and put weight on his right leg, he simply couldn't. That's how far he had left it. And so he realized, you know, that there was something more seriously wrong with him and asked to be, you know, dad to take him to the hospital.
Speaker 1:So and where was that pain exactly? In his leg? It was in his knee, yeah, and his right, so it could have easily been mistaken, for you know the grind on the courts, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very easily, yeah, and so he was rushed to Royal Columbian Hospital and underwent a number of tests. Because it was, you know, it was pretty obvious something seriously was wrong with him.
Speaker 1:Did he just feel pain, or did he start looking, or was he? Was there something different? I mean, was it just a excruciating pain at that point, can you remember? Because you were still kind of living with your brother at that point, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was pretty significant pain, and he had actually one detail that I didn't share was he had actually seen a doctor about two weeks prior up at SFU and he was given medication for it and the pain subsided for a while and he didn't realize that all he was given was medication for pain which didn't really deal with the issue at hand and as soon as you know, he ran out, the pain was back in a really big way.
Speaker 2:So he knew there was something seriously wrong, and we were. It was later, that same evening that Terry underwent the test tests, that we were gathered in a private room this is March, I know the date, march 9th 1977, when we were told what Terry really had and the doctor came into the room and said Terry, you have osteogenic sarcoma, which is bone cancer, and because it's progressed so far, we're going to have to amputate your leg in six days. And he walked out of the room. And you know, again, I remember that evening, even though it's approaching 50 years ago now, as if it were last night. And I remember the reaction to it because, you know, the rest of us mom and dad, doug Alward was there too, fred Judy and myself we were all crying.
Speaker 2:We immediately started to show emotion because, you know, we couldn't handle this news and Terry was only 18. And and he looked around and surveyed the room and realized someone had to be strong here. So he stepped up and one of the first things he said was you know, I've always had to try my best to accomplish what I have to the age of 18. I'm just going to have to try that much harder to overcome this latest challenge. That's what this is. This is a challenge. I have no idea what cancer is until a few moments ago he said I'd never heard of it. But I can promise you I'm going to do my best to beat this disease, and that's exactly how Terry approached cancer from that day Forward.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to put myself in that scenario and to have such a 360 flip of your life and your future. You know, with one diagnosis, to be told that you're going to lose a leg in six days, I just can't comprehend how I would deal with something like that. And to hear that he just again had that immediate mental resilience and rose to the occasion and was the strong one in the family, that's unique, definitely not a normal reaction. I don't think I mean you deal a lot with. I think you probably, through the foundation, get exposed a lot of cancer stories and it would be interesting to know if that is an exception, you know, to the response it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is really unique. And it went from there was, you know, obviously had to prepare for the amputation. And you know he always talked about how friends and family really made a difference for him and supported him. And because they did, they did rush to Terry and were there for him. And you know, it was actually when his former high school, his senior high school basketball coach, terry Fleming, who had Terry from grade 11 and grade 11, grade 12, who came to see him the night before the surgery and you know coach Fleming, who was also my coach too as well, at one point.
Speaker 2:You know, what can I do? What can I offer Terry? What words can I give him? Is there anything I could do to help him? And he managed to come across a Runners World article and on the cover of that Runners World magazine was a picture of Dick Traum. And Dick Traum was an amputee above the amputee like Terry was about to become and he had been able to run the New York City Marathon, so he'd been able to run 42K, 26 miles. So he presented that magazine to Terry and you know Terry thought about that and read that story and said you know, tomorrow my life's about to change forever.
Speaker 2:You know, this is when I need to start making some goals and you know that's what I'm going to try and do. I need a goal. I'm going to try and run. That's the first thing. I'm going to focus on that and that's what I'm going to try and do. I'm going to try and run. So that was a very pivotal moment for Terry because he started to think about post-cancer and the post-amputation and but I don't think he was. He was prepared for what lay ahead because after he had his amputation he thought okay, I can go on and I'll go back to him. And he started. His tutorials happened right away, like he was. Yeah, after he was recovering from the surgery, he was back at SFU. Take, you know, proceeding with that.
Speaker 1:How long did it take before he was able to go back? Because where did the amputate from? He was an above knee amputee.
Speaker 2:So you know it's a huge difference to not have your knee.
Speaker 2:And so he didn't. He did not have his, his the ability to use a knee, so it was six inches above the knee. Within within three weeks he was, he was out of a hospital and, yeah, he was on an artificial leg and and starting to walk. He was golfing within a month. So he was, he was, yeah, he was progressing very well. But what he wasn't prepared for was chemo.
Speaker 2:Chemotherapy, you know, because after the surgery there was still a chance that cancer was in his body and he went through 18 months of chemotherapy. You know, methotrexite, atriomycin I still remember the drugs, you know, because the impact they had on him. He was violently sick, lost his hair, but in typical Terry Fox fashion, you never, he never expressed to those around him how much, how difficult it was and the pain he was in and how uncomfortable he was. But he always knew the store, what he was going through, from the stories he shared of those around him. In the, in the cancer you know, treat treatment facility, he saw people dying of the disease and that had a tremendous impact on Terry and I think was part of the evolution.
Speaker 2:You know Terry would be the first to say if you were sitting here, that he was a very selfish individual. You know, whatever he accomplished to the age of 18 and before his diagnosis was done totally for himself, that cancer gave him something. You know, gave him the, the need and desire to give back, and it was there within him. But it took cancer and the seeing suffering of others that brought it to the surface and he made a promise during that period that if he ever walked out of the cancer ward alive he would never forget those that he had left behind. So I mentioned earlier, terry had this, this, this goal of one day running. He now had a purpose for running and that was to do something about cancer. So it didn't happen right away, you know the, it took 18 months. He did play wheelchair sports. He played wheelchair basketball, volleyball, a little bit of track and field, but he didn't run a step. But that, that goal was within him throughout those 18 months and as soon as he finished his last treatment he started to run.
Speaker 1:So symbolic, right? You know, often I think life is tough and you get these curve balls and these challenges that get put in front of you, Some more extreme than others. And what stands out for me in the story that you're sharing is, I mean, outside of his mental resilience and almost super human kind of optimism that he immediately pivoted to setting a new goal while he was still going through it. It's like he knew that mentally he had to lean into it, right, and he kind of.
Speaker 1:I find it symbolic that he picked running. You're losing a leg and then you end up picking running. You know, a lot of people might think that it goes in the other direction. You know, you become less mobile. So the fact that he during so soon in the process, was the strongest one in the family, that he immediately pivoted and set a goal to I'm going to, you know, look at this thing called running, first take my leg and then, you know, go through the chemo, that is quite symbolic. And it wasn't something that he used to do. Running wasn't his thing, right?
Speaker 2:No, he hated it and I. I hate running too, but I love and Terry hated running too.
Speaker 2:I mean, we were both athletic and we both were focused on team sports and there was always a track and field and cross country coaches that knew that we had the ability to run, who would try to drag us out and recruit us to run. But we hated it. We hated it. But it is interesting that Terry chose running as his vehicle for his you know what would become a huge vision for him. But again, I can't overemphasize that article. You know, if you hadn't read that runner's world magazine, who knows you know what he would have chosen to give back.
Speaker 1:But it became it became running and that magazine was from the coach. Where did the coach provided that magazine? It was something I was going to pry on. I was almost wondering, as you mentioned it, that if you hadn't received that magazine, what would have been the first? I suspect it would have been something else.
Speaker 2:I think it would have been something else. Yeah, we might be talking about something, some other or impossible thing that he would have done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, yeah. So he comes out of chemo and I mean, yeah, chemo just looks horrific, it is horrific, I can't imagine. I hope, I pray that I never have to go through that. You know, my family's had cancer and I've seen chemo just looks. I mean you're putting lethal chemicals into your body, right, yeah, and trying to eliminate the bad cells in the process. So he comes out of that and immediately he's on this mission where he's like he's going to start running. So just take me back to your family's sideline discussions outside of Terry. Surely the house must have been a little bit confused and there was like questions flying across the dining room table like what's going on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, I think we had again an understanding and appreciation of who he was and who Terry was, and you know it just it was. Mom had a different. Obviously it would have had a different reaction to maybe dad, myself, fred and Judy, in terms of, you know, this is just what Terry Fox does. He accepts the challenge and he runs with it. So, but we didn't know what he was planning. You know, he had this goal of running, but he also had a cause now of cancer. But he had this dream of running across the country, but he didn't share it with family members. None of us knew.
Speaker 2:So the goal were new and Rika Noda, his girlfriend, knew, no one else knew and he kept it a secret because he felt that he had to convince himself that he was capable of this incredible goal before sharing it with those close to him. And he started to train. He didn't run 42K at first day, not even close. He ran 400 meters on a dirt track in our hometown of Fort Coquillum, vc, and after I remember him talking about it, after he ran that one circumference of the track, he started to question his goal because it was so painful and so difficult to run just one lap of the track. He couldn't fathom what it would be like to run a marathon or 104 times around, but he always said that whenever he felt like quitting, giving up. You know, packing it in very close to him. Within him was the sight of people suffering on the cancer ward right.
Speaker 1:I think it was ingrained in his mind.
Speaker 2:It was ingrained, it was always there. So whenever he, you know, and they didn't have a switch, they couldn't shut off the pain, whereas he could he said I could stop running at any time and my pain is gone, whereas they don't. So that's always what kept him, kept it going to run another day. So he ran that. First week he ran a quarter of a mile every day and then when he started second week it would be a half mile and then three quarters of a mile the third week and that's how he built up his daily mileage. By the time September this is February of 1979 when he started to run.
Speaker 2:By September of that year he was running eight and a half miles, nine miles every day, and he had set an intermediate goal of running in a race in in Northern BC. It was called the Prince George to Boston Marathon and had that title because the winner of that race when a trip to run in the Boston Marathon it wasn't a marathon, the distance was 17 miles and Doug and I we were also running that weekend and on the drive up mostly Doug said Doug Artere, you're already running eight and a half miles every day. Why are you entered in the short distance, the eight and a half mile race. When you're already doing that, why don't you? Why don't you do the double loop course, the 17 mile race? Well, terry, liking a challenge of course said yes and he finished that race. He came in last place. He was in last place by over, by over nine minutes, I think, but against normal body athletes right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, able body, all able body. But you know, I can still see the smile on Terry's face when he crossed the finish line, because to him it wasn't important where he finished. What was important that he was finished and that he had finished, and that was the confirmation that he could run across the country. And that's when he came home and shared with us what he was planning to do. The bigger vision, the bigger vision.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if I may pry a little bit, just because I think it's so important to you, know the hero story. So he starts training. He has to learn to run with this prosthetic on. I can only imagine. You know, I keep getting pulled into. I also hate running, I don't mind a trail run but I keep getting pulled into 10Ks unwillingly and I recently did my first one in Singapore.
Speaker 1:I finished that and I had like chafing under my arms and like I just it was uncomfortable and it was really quite a challenge for me. That was only a 10K, so I'm trying to now put myself into this situation. So I can only imagine with the prosthetic he had to first acclimatize to that and understand how to get his body to move with the prosthetic. I mean, we're going back to a time where it wasn't as advanced as it is now. Technology was Nowhere near yeah. No, I can only imagine that the prosthetic, because it was up to his knee, must have been chafing and causing irritation on the knee. So just share some of the challenges that he was having in those early days before he built up that resilience and that ability to do those distances.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he had. Well, among many of his special characteristics is this incredible pain threshold, like it was way out there, and you just articulated just exactly some of the challenges. His stump, you know he's, they didn't make he was. His artificial leg was a walking leg that he worked with Ben Spicer, his prosthetics person, to modify so he could run on it. So he was constantly having challenges with his stump bleeding and blisters, together with all the issues he had on his good leg in terms of blisters and shin splints, because he's probably overcompensating Overcompensating hip injury. It was endless. He just kept, he ran through it. He just somehow found a way to run through it all.
Speaker 1:He's like David Goggins in Saatari. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. It's just unbelievable how he kept going and kept and I remember seeing. I remember seeing his feet. I can see his feet vividly right now the blisters and the miss, all losing all his toenails on his, on his every toenail. He lost during the training but he, just out, persisted the pain and kept going and kept going and yeah.
Speaker 1:And you mentioned that you started running, so you also then started running at this time with your brother. Just explain that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, again, I hate. I, like Terry, team sports was my thing. I hated running and somehow somehow I got recruited to to run up in Prince George as well. I ran the eight and a half mile race and so that that summer you know I was I was still attend. I was, yeah, still attending. I was 15, 15, I guess I was in grade 11. So I was still attending school, so, but I was off July, august, before the run in September.
Speaker 2:So I ran with Terry a lot, not with him, but was on the track at the same time with him running laps. I hate, I still have memories of not enjoying it. But obviously, terry, you know, knowing he's there and running as well, that you can't complain. How can I complain? Yeah, how can I complain? But we're, we're competitors. Fox foxes are competitors and we were. You know, obviously I ran faster, I'm able bodied, but we were challenging each other and helped pass the, you know, the loop, the laps around the track to compete against each other. So I was always trying to pass him, lap him. I would lap him, but he would try hard for long the lapping. So that competitive nature was happening as we were both training.
Speaker 1:It's such a brother thing. It is Despite that adversity, that competitive brotherly nature still kicking in at that level to try and lap someone.
Speaker 2:It's so funny. Yeah, so I've. You know, I ran eight and a half miles in September as well, and I don't think I ran for another two years after that because I I disliked it so much, but I found it again later. I, I running has certainly been a huge part of my life, but it wasn't, it wasn't something I enjoyed back then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Terry finishes the race, he comes home and just take me back there. So he sits at the dinner table with a family and he's like, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:So mom was the first he, he, you know, he had. He knew where he had to go first and it was to mom. And and he shared it with mom and we were not, the rest of the family was not present at that time and mom hit the roof of three or four times and then, you know, it started to sink in because Terry was prepared and had answers to all her questions. Why not BC was one of the questions mom had. You know, you don't have to run across the country, run across the province of BC. And Terry said well, not only people in you know BC get cancer, they, they do all across the country. So I'm running across every province. So he was prepared and mom realized, you know, very quickly, that if she didn't support Terry he was going anyways. So it wasn't long before she got on side and started to support him. The rest of us, we just said, when you know, like we knew what Terry was capable of, and I have always, you know, you know you don't run like he was running. I mean you need to run a lot to run a marathon, absolutely. But how he was running and how focused he was, I knew there, even at that age at 17,. I knew there was something unique and special going on, that he had bigger plans. So I wasn't surprised. So, yeah, he, he.
Speaker 2:He then had to. There was other other things that he had to do. He needed to get support, he needed to, he needed to find someone to to go with him as well, to be part of the marathon of hope. So that was a process and he had already you know, april was he'd already planned this is September. He's already planning for April of the following year, which is pretty close to put all that together.
Speaker 2:So the first step was to get an organization to support him. So he, so he went to the Canadian Cancer Society and Blair McKenzie was the executive director at that time, and Blair met with him and and sent, you know, said, okay, interesting idea, see what you can do in terms of of gaining support, you know, see if you can get some sponsors, see if you can raise some money. And sent them away. And Blair said, you know, we always had interesting or crazy fundraising ideas and he just saw this as another one and didn't expect Terry to return. He did, but Terry came back and he'd lined up support from Adidas, who, who offered shoes and, yeah, and Ford of Canada who donated a vehicle. So so, and we had a, held a fundraising dinner and and dance and, you know, raised $5,000. So Terry came back and said look look at this. So Blair had no other choice but to get behind him.
Speaker 1:And the the name of the, of the initiative. Where did that stem from?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, talk about. You know, when you go back to. There was no branding initially, there was no name, there was no title. It was on the side of the band. It says Terry Fox Trans Canada Run. So the actual marathon of hope branding did not arrive until two or three weeks later when Ron Calhoun, who was with the Canadian Cancer Society at a national level, felt we need to get, we need, we need a title for this activity. But Terry arrived on April 12th 1980 to start the marathon without an event, without any branding, without posters, pledge sheets, t-shirts, nothing. He had nothing. Things were a lot different back then.
Speaker 1:I'm having images flash through my head of forest gump. You know where he just one day runs out the house and I think if Terry could have, he probably would have just started running, right, yeah, exactly, it sounded like listen, either you're on board or I'm doing this without you. And you know it definitely has a lot of that feeling for me, where the spirits of his was like this is happening, he doesn't need the lights, the cameras, the branding. It was just about the cause. Right, it was so pure in its intent and he was really pure with his intent too.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because on the first day of the Marathon of Hope, terry wore a Ford t-shirt. He wore Adidas shorts that first day. Every day thereafter and for the remaining 142 days of the Marathon of Hope, he did not. He never wore branded materials. He wore plain gray shorts, white socks and eventually, when the Marathon of Hope t-shirts started to arrive, he wore Marathon of Hope t-shirts without any brand. And I think that's another interesting value that Terry had was he wanted to promote only one thing, and that was cancer research. And we've been, as a family, very protective of that over the last 43 years, but obviously as limited, some might say, our ability to raise more by not co-branding or getting sponsorship. But here we are, 43 years later. We've raised $850 million, $30 million every year. I think we're doing okay. I think it's working.
Speaker 1:For sure, and I think there's something to be said about not being tethered to a sponsor so that you can maintain the purity of the cause. Agendas start creeping in and all sorts of weird stuff starts happening. I think, when brands or sponsors get involved, not to say we don't have corporations that support us.
Speaker 2:We do. In Canada, there are 1,500 corporate teams that participate every year. That's what we want. Yes, we'll take your check too, but we want your people to participate, your families to participate in the run and to experience the opportunity to collaborate and come together for a common cause. That's what this is all about. And talk about COVID a little bit here, but that was taken away from us for two years. That's what we do with the Terry Fox Run. We come together and we weren't able to do that. That was really hard for us, really really hard, and that was also a very important part of Terry's values and this was always interesting For me to witness. In 1980, he was incredibly humble, like unbelievably humble. That's what I'm amazed at. That's one of the most important things for me is the person that started in St John's. Terry Fox was the same person that had to stop in Thunder Bay on September 1st 1980. Despite all the fame and fortune that was offered to him, he always remained grounded, true to his, and we see how that changes.
Speaker 2:Those in the entertainment industry, those that become very famous sports-wise. How they lose touch. They lose touch. Terry, never lost touch.
Speaker 1:Do you think it's testament to the people he surrounded himself with, or that was just the nature of his character, or both I think?
Speaker 2:yeah, good question, I think, in light of the fact we're researching for a new book right now. I think it was a little bit of both. I think he had some incredible people who were mentors and friends that were around him and to have this opportunity now which we've had, to go back and record their stories and a lot of them, in terms of teachers and coaches, they were just starting their career back in 1980.
Speaker 2:They were very young teachers and educators and they've had a lifetime now of other young people coming through them and coaching and teaching them, and they said there was no one like Terry Fox, no one which is interesting in terms of his values were pretty unique.
Speaker 1:So take me back to the departure of that first leg of this amazing journey. Were you there? Were you part of it?
Speaker 2:No, no, I wasn't there originally, it was just Terry and Doug Allard, so just the two of them. Doug did the driving and cooking I use that term loosely because a cookie was not.
Speaker 1:Bachelor of yeah.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I mean, I've always saw Doug and Doug is a very close friend now. We share a common interest in sports and running as well.
Speaker 1:How did he originally come into the story? You mentioned his name, so Doug was a friend of Terry.
Speaker 2:So Doug was a friend, but more a sports friend. So they both played basketball together. Doug would be the individual, would be trying to recruit Terry to run as well, but sports was where they came together. They shared the co-athlete of the year in gray 10. So they had so many things in common. When Terry had to find someone, he approached Doug and I really think if you looked up friend in the dictionary, you should see as an example Doug Allard, because he made a pretty important commitment to Terry's marathon of hope as well.
Speaker 1:He was a volunteer. He had to put his own ambitions and life on the hold.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was going to SFU as well and he had to park everything to commit to Terry for a year. That was quite a commitment on his part, and so there was just the two of them. That started on April 12th. Very humble beginnings.
Speaker 1:And where did they start?
Speaker 2:In St John's, newfoundland, the far Eastern part of the country, and the plan was to run. People questioned why did he start there Instead of starting in BC? He wanted to run home. So the idea is starting the most Eastern province and make my way back to BC and the Pacific Ocean.
Speaker 1:And what time of the year is this? What's the temperature? I mean, what are we dealing with as external factors? Because Canada's got some extreme environments and you got bears and a lot of wildlife. So, you know, I mean what were the risks that had to be factored into this between Doug and Terry. You know, especially when they're starting off, this amazing adventure is just, you know, two individuals with this big vision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, terry Dill, listen, I don't think he really we couldn't train. The West Coast is fairly mild compared to the other provinces, so we get mild winters, we get a lot of rain, but we get very little snow, very little cold temperatures. That's not the case for Newfoundland. In April, like he was dealing with some incredible conditions in terms of cold, snow, wind, wind the wind in Newfoundland was unbelievable, but he kept running. You know, he just, and he was. His goal was to run a marathon every day.
Speaker 1:So, which is what? 42 kilometers, 42 kilometers every day.
Speaker 2:That is insane. It is absolutely insane, and that's what he did. He averaged close to marathon every day for 143 days in a row.
Speaker 1:I just got goosebumps because that's something I can't do as a able-bodied person, and even with training I don't think I'd be able to do that. I don't know, I don't know. You know, I know someone that runs marathons and it's a special kind of mindset that comes with just being able to train and gear yourself up for that level of commitment and that's a mental battle, right. Just one marathon on its own, doing it back to back for 150 plus days, that's almost superhuman right. And doing it with a prosthetic, I don't have an answer.
Speaker 2:I've been looking for an answer for 43 years. I was there. I spent three months with Terry. I witnessed him do that for 90 days. I witnessed this. I don't know. I know why We've talked about the, why I don't know how. Superhuman is the only way to describe it. You know, I sometimes Terry's own words. He said I want to try the impossible to show that it can be done. That's what he said, he wrote in his journal and that's what he did in 1980. He proved to us all that anything is possible if you try. That's what I believe. The only limitations are self-imposed. In my mind.
Speaker 1:And I mean, what was I mean? I'm trying to think of the sustenance and the what he had to be putting into it. There's definitely more than just the physical body that he was leaning on there. I think that he a big part of that was his spirit that was enabling him to be able to accomplish something as extreme as that. I mean, even if you say to me, do 42 kilometers for seven days in a row, that would be questionable. We're talking about half a year that he did it back to back. How did he? What was the diet that he was taking in? I mean, what was his friend cooking for him? There's some special sandwiches that he was throwing in the mix there.
Speaker 2:We didn't have power bars and gels back then.
Speaker 1:Anti-chaffing lubricants all of these things.
Speaker 2:No, nothing, nothing, nothing. He ate as much as he could. Basically, that's how you would define it. So to give you a sense of what, how a day would unfold, for.
Speaker 2:Terry, yeah, he's every morning. We were up at 430 with Terry running at five o'clock. He'd run 12 miles in the morning. Doug would drop them off on the side of the road at five and then proceed to drive the van exactly one mile ahead. And then Doug Terry would run to the van, run past it and then Doug would proceed to mark the second mile, drive up and mark the second mile. So he played leapfrog with the van all day. After two miles Terry would take a break and have a glass of water or an orange that was one of my responsibilities to be there to provide that for him and then, after the 12 miles he would take, usually about nine o'clock he would finish the morning run and then he would take a three hour break and he'd start that break with eat again.
Speaker 2:Finding food and unbelievable what happened in the night In the beginning people, restaurants donated food. We never I arrived. I joined the marathon of Hope on May 31st, so I missed the first six weeks. I came with $50. Mum gave me $50. I think I had $37 still remaining when we had to stop. Why? Because people were so generous, they gave so much.
Speaker 1:And what was the trigger for you to go and join him? Were you always planning to, or was there something that you were like I had? I have to be part of this and get closer to it. Just take me back to your mindsets at that point. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I was 17, 16 actually, I was in my final year of high school and what had happened was Terry had planned meticulously for the marathon of Hope. He had all the, he had the shoes and the van and had a route, had a friend, but what he didn't plan for was living with his best friend, doug O'Ward, 24-7. So the issue soon arose that if someone else didn't join them, there was going to be a murder on the marathon of Hope. Fair points. So that was the reason and mum became aware of this and mum and dad actually made it and it trip out to Nova Scotia about five weeks into the marathon of Hope to try and resolve the differences between them.
Speaker 1:And what was the? What was the? What was grating them? Was it just the pressure of that? Daily grind, yeah, just you know it's. I can imagine, terry, probably putting Doug under a lot of scrutiny to hit this, this mark, and, you know, probably it would have been strenuous, naturally. So Stress, yeah, stress.
Speaker 2:It was really stressful for all of us. Right? I understood it. Doug understood it too. You know, we we appreciated what Terry was doing on a daily basis. You know, I get it. You know, one of the reasons why I was there when I arrived was to be there during the difficult moments and when Terry had to vent. I'm, I'm, I'm there to receive it. But it was to me very natural in light of what he was accomplishing and what he was doing, so everything had to be really perfect.
Speaker 2:you know, that's what we had to try and do Make the day. You know, don't alter the schedule.
Speaker 1:Was he driving a tideship I mean he was making? Was it coming from Terry, where he was so methodical and meticulous that it kind of was him driving the show?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So. So that that was a very much a part of the day was was being able to read Terry, understand Terry, and you know you, you just had to wait for the right moment. And, again, perfectly understandable. But in the beginning I think they didn't realize how difficult it would be, you know, and they didn't have the time to get away from one another. So at the end of the day they were sleeping in this, this camperized van, and they just didn't quite understand the challenges of of what they were both going through. But by the time I arrived they had resolved their differences. You know, doug is equally determined and stubborn as Terry Fox's, so they have, they had a lot. It was a perfect, perfect arrangement. I just think they needed time to realize what they were both going through, and I buy that again, by the time I arrived they had resolved their differences.
Speaker 2:My job was really just again to be there as a younger brother and and, and you know, at that time I had a sense of humor. I've lost it since, but at least at that time I was able to make Terry laugh and when I knew that the moment was right and Terry had an incredible sense of humor. But you had to wait for for him to to be in a position where he could really relax and like it was like the ultimate stressful job every day for him. And it started early. It started at 430 and it didn't end until, you know, five or six o'clock at night. The days were incredibly long because he's running this marathon every day and then he's also meeting with people you know and he's he's interviews. He was, you know it was Terry that was calling back home to BC and we didn't have cell phones back then I was just going to say we're pre-sale phone yet?
Speaker 2:No, no. He had to find a pay phone to make calls to, to the radio stations and TV stations that wanted reports on how he was, how he was doing. He did all that. He had to speak, you know. He had to share his story. He had events along the way. I was exhausted, I was incredibly exhausted, and here I am sitting in the van. Most of the time I don't have an answer to how we did it.
Speaker 1:So powerful and Camille does know it's coming. I really hope that one day we can see a movie about this. That can you know. Just try and help people you know most themselves in that experience, because I suspect that and I have no doubt that he was always going to hit the mark. But there's this big idea you start it. It's you know, terry and Doug.
Speaker 1:Then you go in through the reality of what you've embarked on and the stress and the pain that comes with that, the close quarters, living, acclimatizing to the two personalities. During all of that stress they're in a pressure cooker. It's a mental, it's a complete mental battle for everyone involved and I'm sure for everyone outside of Terry. You had moments where you're like I don't know if I can do this anymore. But then you look at Terry and you're like, okay, let me relook again at my own persona. And why do I feel like I can't do this? I mean, you've got the person that's actually doing the hard yards. It must have been quite a mind bender to be in that unique circumstance going through that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was, and I guess I've had it. You know, 43 years to reflect on it. You know, let's face it, I was 17.
Speaker 1:You know I was. I was pretty, pretty young and 17 year olds are going out dating doing a really nonchalant things, yeah, and I get.
Speaker 2:I was asked that a lot during the marathon of hope, you know so look at you. You're now graduated from high school. You could be having so much fun. You know why are you here? Well, I'm here because I'm experiencing an adventure of a lifetime. I'm seeing my country Like no one else has seen my country. I'm witnessing a nation embrace my brother.
Speaker 2:You know I was able to watch Terry run and I was able to watch a nation watch him run, and the expressions on without words wasn't, was absolutely incredible. Now look what I get to do. I get to reflect on it every day of my life. It's kind of cool. So I almost him two people. You know I am Darryl Fox there's that that other person but I'm also Terry Fox's brother and I switched between the two identities quite a bit. So pretty. I've been given this incredible gift actually. Yeah so, and I don't take it lightly.
Speaker 1:And I don't feel like you do. I can see, just being present with you in the room, how much it still sits so on the floor. Yeah, it's right there, emotionally, and yeah, I can only imagine. You know the kind of. Because you know why, because I always fail.
Speaker 2:What do you mean? Why can't? I can't articulate, I can't put into words what he accomplished.
Speaker 1:I think you do, and I like, I like.
Speaker 2:I like what you just you know in terms of a movie, that you know where we're actually. That's, that's a dream of mine to be able to capture. You know what I've witnessed on screen you know, there have been two movies before.
Speaker 2:There was an HBO movie which we want to bury her in 80, from 81, 82. And then we had a CTV movie, a made for TV movie, in 2005, which was really good, but we haven't had a theater release. So that is a dream and a goal, and one one, one that I'm working on right now, that we're working on. So I want, I want people to be able to see and experience what I did in 1980. If we can capture that, that's going to move a lot of people.
Speaker 1:Well, it's moving me and I think that the world needs it, because it's one of those stories that just seems too unrealistic to be true and I'd like to fast forward. So we, we go. They start the race, you join the race. It sounds like it probably was just the two of them. Then you join. Can envisage that this momentum starts building behind it as he clocks day, one week, one month, one where people are like what's going on? Yeah Right, there's something very special happening. What was that momentum like? How big was the ground swell behind him as he made progress and take us through the journey from the beginning to the final stages. If you can just provide a kind of a view of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so. So, yes, it's true that just there was just Terry and Doug in the beginning and then I joined, but we always had, you know that the Canadian Cancer Society supporting Terry was really, really big it was. It was mixed in terms of Canada's made up of 10 provinces and there's 10 provincial offices of the Canadian Cancer Society. Some of them were more into supporting Terry than others. Some of them really jumped on board when they saw the opportunity as well. But having the CCS was really important because they they helped to coordinate and arrange events in the communities that Terry was about to run through.
Speaker 2:It is sometimes said in Canada that, you know, the Marathon of Hope didn't really take off until he arrived in the biggest province of Ontario. I don't believe that. I know it's not true, because what am I based on what I experienced? And you know, the fact that the other provinces were smaller, smaller regions, doesn't mean that they weren't there to support Terry, but they were limited in terms of the size of the communities. But, for example, port Abbas, the last community in Newfoundland, the first province, population 10,000, they raised $10,000. That was big.
Speaker 2:And that's where Terry changed his goal. Initially he had a goal of raising a dollar from. I mean a million dollars. But after Port Abbas he changed his goal, based on what Port Abbas did, to $1 from every Canadian and that's $24 million. And he realized that goal before he passed away. He raised $24 million. But support was there in the early days. It just wasn't captured nationally. Early on it was more regionally focused and it really wasn't until Terry crossed the border into Ontario that it reached another level and chaos. Chaos ruled from July 1st until September 1st, the day that Terry was forced to stop running because it was nutty.
Speaker 1:And when you say that was it swarms of people following the convoy and the race.
Speaker 2:Yeah, people now line the streets for miles throughout Ontario. Everybody wanted a piece of Terry and he had so much pressure put on him to slow down. He had a goal of running 26 miles every day, but that was inhibiting his ability to raise more money. If he slowed down, we could spend more time in the bigger cities and raise more money. That's what he was the pressure that was being placed on him by the Canadian Cancer Society. So it was a real challenge for him because ultimately he wanted to raise money. That was the whole idea was raise another dollar.
Speaker 2:But at the same time he wanted the goal of running a marathon every day to be there. He wanted it to be seen as impossible, which it was, and so it was a constant challenge for him to balance the two. So he kept focus on the running. But what happened during the day was when he I didn't explain earlier, but when he took that three-hour break after eating that meal, he would sleep for a couple hours. That didn't happen in Ontario. There was no sleep because there was another speaking engagement or an opportunity to fundraise In the evening.
Speaker 2:In the early provinces. He would have the night off. No nights off in Ontario for the last two months of the marathon of hope. He had to speak maybe once or twice. They didn't want Doug Alward or Darryl Fox, they wanted to terry. They wanted the real deal. They wanted to terry and he had troubles. He had real difficulties saying no. So the day in Ontario, a day, would end at nine o'clock and he'd be up again at 4.30 to do it all over again. You're shaking your head. That's what I did in 1980 for three months. I shook my head because I don't know how he had some incredible power to recuperate overnight and get up and do it again and again and again.
Speaker 1:It feels very divine, and again I use the word supernatural. As a family, it must have been both amazing to witness it, but also a little bit concerning, because I suspect that when you've got a loved one that is dealing with something like that, did you know during the race that he was still infected and that there was something wrong? Was it that he's doing the race? He'll be finished with the race. Life will go on as normal. Because what was the mindset? And just maybe paint, because the way it ends is dramatic. Just how did it?
Speaker 2:Well, he was still within that. So even today you want to get beyond five years after diagnosis. Once you get beyond five years, you're in remission from cancer. Terry wasn't beyond five years. He was still in year three of just beyond year three when he started the marathon of hope. So that was always there.
Speaker 2:The other issue for him was his heart. Because of the chemo and the age of romance and the methotrexite, he had an issue with his heart he actually ended up with. The CCS demanded that he see a heart specialist and get an approval from a heart specialist. Before he started the marathon of hope, he got a letter, but it wasn't exactly a letter of support. He said he's going to do it. The last sentence said this guy's going to run no matter what whether I sign this letter or not, but this is what I suggest he do and I suggest that he see a doctor every two weeks.
Speaker 2:Well, terry refused to do any of that. He never saw a doctor. The CCS was constantly putting pressure on him to see someone, but his response to that was no one knows, no one can evaluate what I'm doing. Who else in the world has ever done this? I'm my own judge of my condition To answer the question. I think Terry had a sense of things. Do you think he knew? I think he knew, I think he knew. But I think we're all given, we're all around for a reason, for a purpose, and that's what I think Terry knew. His time was going to be short and he had this vision to put out there and that's what he did. That's what we're still doing.
Speaker 1:And did he keep that to himself that the family have that? Yeah, that's the section.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think he kept that to himself. That's something that was within. We haven't talked about September 1st, but the last day of the marathon of hope. But when the doctor that diagnosed Terry in Thunder Bay, where Terry was forced to stop, could not believe that this individual was able to walk into his office, let alone run 26 miles a day before because of the physical condition he was in. He had two tumors, one the size of a lemon in his right lung and one the size of a golf ball in his left lung, and yet he had run 26 miles a day before. Again, it defies logic and I think Terry had a sense. I can't confirm it. He never spoke as in terms of the family knowing. We didn't know, but I think he knew the marathon he would not finish and he would say that during. He said that often during the run If I don't finish the marathon of hope, it better continue without me. He said that many times.
Speaker 2:And that gives a sense Almost prophetic, yeah, and it was always an inclusive event for him. It wasn't just him. People would praise and congratulate and thank and he quickly deflected to others and I think that's because he knew it would be with others, with all of us, after he left.
Speaker 1:And so was there a rapid decline when he got to the end. What happened, so, I mean, was he was going strong he's 150, you said 153 days, 143 days into it, and did his health just start taking a bad turn. You picked up that there was something wrong, and hence the doctor came in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there wasn't a real, it was pretty abrupt, you know. Again, he ran 26 miles a day before he had issues two weeks, about a week or so prior, with an ankle injury, but it was an ankle, you know. It ended up being not a stress factor but just tendonitis. He had to take a day off, which he wasn't happy about, but there was no others. He had a bit of a cough.
Speaker 2:What I think when I reflect back, I do remember towards in the last two or three weeks that Terry became I mean again I mentioned how sometimes there was frustration and I was there for him during those difficult moments but he became a little bit more irritable the last two or three weeks and he became really focused on mileage. You know, he wanted to know to the foot how far he had gone but more importantly, how far he still had to get home, and yet he was over 2,000 miles away. So I think from there, I think he had a sense that something wasn't quite right within and he started and the only thing that surfaced more during that last couple of weeks was a cough. He started to cough a bit more, but otherwise he just plowed through, he kept running through, he ran through everything and he ran again. He ran 26 miles a day before he was diagnosed and was put on a stretcher and had to fly home.
Speaker 1:What a legend. And when he flew home, how much longer did he have before things kind of played out the way they did?
Speaker 2:So you're, yeah, I mean I've shown a little bit of motion up until now. I might show a little bit more now because that was a real.
Speaker 2:So he ran his last mile on September 1st. He didn't pass away until June 28th of the following year. I mean, that's a long time. That's a long time and it was a very dark time, very, very dark time. And I have no memories of that, for obvious reasons, because I don't want to. That's traumatic. Yeah, it was so traumatic because you knew what was happening, but he fought, he fought and he fought, and he was always to the bitter end. He was still positive, he was still thinking I'm going to get out there, I'm going to finish this. That's how we, that's what he communicated, that's what he thought and I think it was because of that mental thinking that he lived as long as he did. It really is incredible, but he didn't. He did die and that is still hard. It's still very hard because I was a younger brother who witnessed a miracle up until, who idolized his old brother, who still does, and I just never thought he would die. Well, but he did.
Speaker 1:I think the physical form, yes, but he lives on three years. I can say that with confidence. And yeah, such a beautiful, sad story and it's still amazing that something like that could have taken place. At what point did you realize that the foundation was going to come into effect? And maybe we can gravitate towards that? Let's move over there, yeah.
Speaker 2:No well, I think what you just said is pretty important is that it's not a sad story. It is an emotional story. Obviously there's emotion here, over here, but it's not a sad story. It's a story of hope, it's a story of positivity. I think, and that's what I believe. I can't help the emotion. It's always going to be there. But it was actually Mr Isidore Sharp, who's the president of Four Seasons Hotels, who had lost a son to cancer at the age of 18, who became an early supporter of the Marathon of Hope, who contacted Terry after Terry was forced to stop running, sent him a telegram. It was a telegram back then.
Speaker 1:And for those that don't know what a telegram is, it's a piece of paper.
Speaker 2:It's like a fax. Like a fax. And he picked up on what Terry would want. He realized no, we got to keep this going. And what do you think about having an annual run in your name? And so Mr Sharp and Terry connected over the next few weeks and months. So Terry knew before he passed away that there'd be an annual Terry Fox run in his name.
Speaker 1:Wow, I didn't realize that.
Speaker 2:So you actually had a say in the process he did have a say in the process and he loved it because it was inclusive and it was bringing people together and values again are part of who we are and the pulses and guidelines are really big to us and we say no a lot but we're in it for the long run and I think we've proven it.
Speaker 2:It does work. So he knew the foundation wasn't created until 1988. So we still operated within the Canadian Cancer Society from 81 to 88. The Terry Fox runs there. But Mr Sharp and Mum, who dropped her manager of a card shop position to be Terry Fox's mother and assume this role she wasn't educated for this position but she believed passionately in Terry's cause and they were very close, Mum and Terry, and they came up with the idea that maybe we should become independent from the Canadian Cancer Society because, as well as the Cancer Society, they treated the run well but they had other, many other activities and initiatives and Mr Sharp and Mum felt we could grow this if we were independent. And that's exactly what happened. From 81 to 88. The run raised about three or four million dollars every year. The first year that we were independent we raised seven million dollars.
Speaker 1:Going back then that's a lot of money. The race itself you mentioned raised over 20 million, 24 million dollars, and this is in 1980s, I mean that's a lot of money. That's like a few hundred million in today's terms.
Speaker 2:It would be yeah, yeah, and we've been growing ever since. So we raise, yeah, over 30 million every year now.
Speaker 1:And do you think it's a bit of a difficult question, but do you think that his legacy would have lived on if you didn't carve it out and make it a standalone initiative on its own?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know the answer to that question. I don't know what would have happened. There are those that and we've always refused it, and it was pretty important. Back then it was something that we were having to deal with, including the Toronto Maple Leafs, a hockey team, a professional hockey team, who wanted to finish the marathon of hope, who wanted to start in Thunder Bay and finish the run, and Terry made it clear there's only one person that can finish this and that is me. So he worried if someone finished, or a group finished, the marathon of hope that that would be the end.
Speaker 2:And so he was again showed wisdom to have something that could continue and can continue until we've eradicated cancer. And we have come a long way in the fight against cancer. If Terry was diagnosed with bone cancer today, instead of a 30 to 40% chance of living, which he was given in 1977, he'd have over an 80% chance of living and his leg would never have been amputated. Wow, so that's pretty powerful for me sitting here. I can't change history, but I know with the dollars that we raised today, we are changing and saving lives in the future. Sure, yeah.
Speaker 1:So the organization is now spearheaded by yourself and an amazing team. You mentioned about 30 people that help you run this organization. Where is the organization headquartered and which regions is it currently operating in? And maybe we can also just dive into the kind of research, because I took a look at the list of research that has been completed, which is phenomenal, and I look at all the research that's currently ongoing, and the list is long. There's really so much and things I don't even understand on your website that's happening. So the impact of this is so profound because it's across different types of cancer. It's so broad. So maybe you can just help shape our thinking around what is the current footprint of the organization and then focus.
Speaker 2:So the Terry Fox Foundation continues to be the fundraising organization and has existed for the longest time, since 1988. So it raises money. The Terry Fox Research Institute allocates the dollars raised by the foundation every year. We like to think of ourselves as virtual. We have offices in all the provinces across the country. The head offices are located in the province of BC, where Terry was raised, so that's a requirement. We remain there, but we look at ourselves as being everywhere and anywhere, and that's very, very important to us.
Speaker 2:The Terry Fox Research Institute operates and it depends quite extensively on researchers coming together. They are responsible for a peer review process where they review grants that are received from major hospitals and universities across the country, and we fund research based on the quality and ability to improve outcomes. That's number one priority, not sight. I mean people might think well, because Terry had bone cancer, you must devote a lot of dollars to osteoagenics or coma research. No, we don't. It's about scientific excellence. That's priority number one. Is it going to make a difference In terms of some of the exciting opportunities that await us in the future?
Speaker 2:For us in Canada, we are the human genome and the discovery there and the ability to improve outcomes is significant for us, so personalized medicine is something that is really important to us, and it is a global opportunity. What we have in Canada is the ability, because of our healthcare system, to bring all the major hospitals and universities together. We've received funding from the federal government 150 million over five years. It requires us to raise 150 million, but what it will allow us to do is to gather data, and what McGill University, princess Margaret Hospital, all of the organizations in Canada are saying is Terry Fox is the only person that will bring us together, because we compete against each other and normally, but Terry is someone who could bring us together and we'll share data with all the other organizations across the country. The goal will be to treat the right patient with the right treatment at the right time Right now, and historically, the way we've treated cancer is we give everybody the same thing, but it may not work because we're all individual.
Speaker 2:We're all different, and so that's what's exciting, that's coming out of personalized medicine going forward is we'll be able to treat the right patient with the right treatment at the right time, and that's very exciting. We want to extend this internationally as well, obviously, and that's where TFRI plays a role outside of Canada in terms of working with, any money that's raised outside of Canada stays in the country in which it's raised. It doesn't come back to Canada, nor should it because people here are raising that money. Tfri works with the cancer organization within that country to determine a project worthy of being funded, and TFRI works with the Singapore Cancer Society here to determine what projects should be funded here.
Speaker 1:Thank you. It's just crazy that something as important as cancer is still so fragmented outside of the Terry Fox Foundation Academia and research institutions feels like it's still way too siloed and I really hope that you can become that horizontal platform. I love that Even after he's passing he's still bringing people together outside of just runners, but the academic institutions are resonating with that and opening up their data, because that's key, right.
Speaker 2:That's really key and they're more willing. Where we still need to be honest and open and transparent here is bringing the fundraisers together. Academia is very much willing to work together. It's the fundraisers that are more challenging and that's what's with the. It's called the Marathon of Hope Cancer Center Network. That's this program that we've launched with the federal government.
Speaker 2:What's really exciting and has me excited is the fact we are bringing the fundraisers together as well, because we don't get any money unless we match it, unless we raise $150 million. We have to work with Princess Margaret Hospital Foundation, the BC Cancer Foundation. All the fundraisers also have to come together, and that's what's really exciting. It's been a challenge because it's so new to them. We compete. Why are we competing? I don't get it. I don't understand it adversely, because we need to come together to tackle this major problem. But it is happening and it is working and that's what has me excited. If we can introduce that around the world as well. I look forward to seeing that happen and Terry Fox being part of that movement to bring people together and organizations together.
Speaker 1:Agreed. I want to zoom in on this running these organizations because often we see when money gets involved and the kind of money that you're talking about, that things can go haywire. How do you manage these organizations and the business side in a way that doesn't get corrupted by money or agendas? Because there seems to be a lot of weird stuff in the cancer space when it comes to theories but the causality of cancer, remedies and things that can heal cancer Some people say just drink alkaline water every day. When we look at how money is misallocated or abused or you look at a lot of NGOs that raise money, the more money spent on administration than actual end result. How do you deal with that With your business cap on? Were you prepared for this challenge and how do you make sure that the Terry Fox Foundation doesn't get corrupted, for lack of a better term?
Speaker 2:It is something that consumes me and my family and our board of directors all the time, 24-7. I think you have to stay on top of it. There's not an easy answer to it, but I think passion is everything. As you said earlier, terry's not with us, but he's with us. His vision and values are very prominent within our organization and are always there. Terry still drives us and he still leads us. Having that close by and being able to go into a place or a room where other organizations are present and lead with that vision and values is all that other potential, the potential challenges of how dollars are allocated to admin and all those other issues go away. I mean they're not an issue for us because we have Terry with us all the time and he leads.
Speaker 1:Wow You're spending. I mean the focus is on research and I like the topic of personalized medicine as a focal point. Cancer seems to be increasing exponentially and maybe you can correct my broad stroke statements here but it does feel like it's becoming more prevalent that there's different types of cancers materializing. My only high-level understanding is that, as humans, we're introducing a lot of new things that we don't understand into our food supply, the chemicals that we expose to the different environments that we placed in, and we're still learning as we go along what the thresholds are part per million exposure to what chemicals can be in food or cosmetic products. What is your take on the whole cancer field and where are we going when it comes to not only resolving or personalizing the medicinal part, but the preventative part when it comes to cancer? Yeah, what is your take on all of that?
Speaker 2:Well, everything's on the table and everything is important, including what we ingest and breathe. I would say, though, 20, 30 years ago, it wasn't Everything was laboratory-based research. We believe what we take in has an impact and we, based on peer review again, if it's worthy of being funded, we fund research into those areas and we need to fund into those areas. In terms of cancer being more prevalent, it is why, well, we are living longer. I mean, the reality is because of the improved survival rates. We're living longer. It's just natural that we're going to be diagnosed with cancer because of the fact we're an aging population, but outcomes have been survival rates for all forms of cancer have increased.
Speaker 2:I remember the first few years of the foundation and questioning is it the idea of research in general? Is it making a difference? I don't get those questions anymore because we have a program called the Terries Team Member Program, and they are those that have experienced and survived cancer, and you see them at the Terry Fox Run because they're wearing a red t-shirt that signifies that they're a cancer survivor. The reality is those red t-shirts, the number of them are growing, because people are living with cancer now and living longer with cancer. That's proof that we are making a difference. We have to invest more in research around what we're ingesting, what we're taking in, what we're consuming, because that obviously is having an impact on the number of diagnosis.
Speaker 1:Are you investing in tech-based startups? Is there any part of your organization? I've come across recently one of the startups that we've just pulled into our ecosystem that has created the ability to implement a chip onto the platelet that does cell analysis to pick up cancer cells using AR and it's rapidly shortened the time to diagnose through the application of AR. Are you investing in emerging technologies like AR or anything else to we are not, but we will be.
Speaker 2:I mean, AI is very interesting and a novel and new area and we are intending to go down that route in the future. Okay, fantastic.
Speaker 1:I could sit and really continue. I know we. I just took a look at the clock and the time has flown past and I would love to go further into it with you. Is there anything else you'd like to share? How can people get more involved? What would be the best way for people that are interested to learn more or get more involved with your program, reach?
Speaker 2:out to us. Wwwcoxorg is our website. It's an international website. Reach out connect and we'd be happy. We do respond, and we respond quickly because we care.
Speaker 1:We'd love to hear from you. Amazing, you have races, annual races or international events that people can participate in.
Speaker 2:Yes, so in Canada, because Terry was forced to stop running in September. That's when all of our events take place. The run takes place in September and all our schoolover 8,000 schools host Terry Fox Runs in Canada. Outside of Canada, we leave it up to the organizers of the run to determine the best time of the year to host their event. We are an event-based organization. Again, we want people to come together. That's what Terry wanted in 1980. We're always open to ideas, fundraising ideas, so please reach out if you're interested in getting involved.
Speaker 1:You have visits in Singapore. At the moment You're visiting a lot of different schools. What is the interlock at a school level?
Speaker 2:Schools are everything to us. It's our ability to, first and foremost, to share Terry's story. I'm here on an invite from Maple Bear Schools. They offer a bilingual Canadian education and its preschools. It's super cute, even at that young age. These are children who are up to six years old and yet you start communicating about Terry and they're all years. It's amazing. I'm having a great time, to say the least, because they are our future. To them, the Marathon of Hope was not 43 years ago. To them. They know that Terry's not here, but it could have been last week that he was running and that's what's so cool about it.
Speaker 2:They're the future. We need to hand off and that's what we're doing. That's the process that we're going through right now. I'm in the process of doing that too, because I'm getting old and dated and I need to hand off to the next generation. Our next generation is our children. Fred, judy and myself. We have nine kids between us and they're now leading the way. We have monthly meetings and they're all part of that. That's the exciting thing. There's always something happening in the Terry Fox world and we have movies and books and documentaries and recognition projects to talk about every month, and it's very exciting.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. Has anyone tried to recreate the route or run the route, or?
Speaker 2:It's interesting. Terry was the first, but there are people running across the country now for a variety of causes, including cancer, all the time. It's unfortunate because they have the best of intentions, they're pure, but it has happened before and it's difficult for them to get the attention they deserve. But we will not endorse anyone finishing the marathon of hope. That will not happen.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm inspired and I think that I'm going to have some deep introspection after today's discussion. I really appreciate you opening up and sharing such personal details of your life and your brother's life, and I'm grateful that he has you to carry the legacy forward. It feels there's elements of it that feel very I want to use the word prophetic. Like he knew, I think, once the diagnosis was made, the strength and mental resilience he had to set that goal and ambition. There's so many lessons for all of us to take out of it. When we face life's adversities, when we get hit with the worst case scenario, how we can either be a victim or we can rise to the occasion, reframe the thinking, use it to motivate others, do the impossible. I'm truly inspired and I hope that, in some small way, that anyone listening to this can participate, get involved, be inspired and work with your amazing organization and thank you.
Speaker 2:My pleasure.
Speaker 1:I enjoyed the conversation, thank you.